View source for User talk:ShoutWiki

Several of my posts have been edited by a member named Catfightfan without first contacting me, the originator of the file. For example, this member has gone into edit mode on Fighting Nurse and erased her birth state of New Jersey. I would hardly call listing a state as possible doxing. I used her ring name only and again, identified the state she was from. Catfight an has done similar edits to other files I have set up. Firstly, I do not agree with the edit. Second, how about reaching out to me? Professional curtesy?

Hi Bob, I think what Catfightfan has been doing is responding to a request/instruction issued by our site administrator Zweig AKA Naji. It reads as posted below:-

Hi, Wiki,

In order to maintain the legality of the wiki we need to remove all personal information from wrestler pages. I'm unsure at which point they started slipping in, but I take all the blame for being distant from the project.

No real names

This one is the most crucial. Unless the wrestler actively uses their real name, these need to be removed. I have removed what I could find via a quick search. Please find and remove what's left.

No date of birth

The dates of birth need to be removed. Year is fine. So, we keep this line in the infobox:

| birth_date = 1977

No place of birth

The birth place line needs to go from the infobox if present.

No other personal information

I found a page which says the city that the wrestler currently lives in and what kind of family they have. This can't be.

So although they may be slightly irritating the changes are in accordance with a directive and aren't intended to undermine anybody's work.

This is my take on things, I'm sure Catfightfan can answer for himself if he has anything to add.

Regards, JQ

Thanks for the response. I am curious now as to why the templates include this information in the first place. I have constructed about a half dozen pages for this site. In doing so I have never posted any info that could result in a privacy violation or “dox” a wrestler. The edits have felt a bit like nit picking. Listing a state of birth, year/month of birth, or a first name that already exists on other video sites in the bio section does not measure up to a legal violation. Taking it upon yourself to edit another members work without the benefit of first contacting the member is presumptuous. It borders on ludicrous when the page edited regards a wrestler who has passed away. Thanks again for reaching out. If you’ve any more thoughts on the matter please let me know. Best regards.

I guess the answer is that in 2012, when the Wiki was started up, the way in which the templates were set up did not seem to be remotely controversial. But in the intervening years attitudes have changed and privacy of information has become a hot topic, with the site administrator coming under pressure from individuals unhappy about what details are in the public domain. Therefore he has had to enforce some stronger guidelines - obviously when you impose universal rules there will be a number of examples where they make no sense, but allowing individual variations wouldn't be feasible. The other thing to remember is that for the first six years or more there were only about 300 wrestler profiles on view as against the 2600+ which are now present. As for the general question of editing an entrant created by another member, it has always been permissible to do this - say to add new match details or new photos - without consulting the originator. If you find that you disagree with the alteration then equally you have the right to reverse the change, which is what I've done on more than one occasion. Hope these thoughts are useful, and please continue to contribute!

Well, I can’t argue with that. Thanks.

Hi Bob I can understand that request when the fighter is alive, but for a dead person it seems unduly prohibitive. I have just reversed a Catfightfan's changes to Nadege's page about her details, but she died some years ago and the details in her intro were obviously contributed by somebody who knows her well. Merlin

I've done this to several other dead wrestlers aswell. If we manage it like that these changes would need to be reversed too.

I reversed the change you did to Nadege out of respect for the person who originally wrote the introduction to the page who was a friend of Nadege. Deleting the details is like deleting parts of an obituary!

Completely agree with your point regarding wrestlers who have passed. As I understood Zweig's original request he was concerned that wrestlers/ex-wrestlers might feel their privacy could be infringed, or that the information shown may now be embarrassing to them. But in no way could this be said to apply to people who have died unless the details were totally inaccurate or deliberately misleading in the first place. Don't see it's a big deal to reverse whatever changes have already been made - there can't be a large number of deceased wrestlers involved.

I can understand Zweig being cautious about allowing personal details of fighters, although other sites such at IMDB and IAFD have no such concerns. But I definitely will undo any future deletions I see with deceased fighters. Kelli Thomas is one that springs to mind who died some years ago and all her details have been amended.

How about a quick heads up re what types of photos are permitted on this site? I am thinking of posting half a dozen to a dozen samples of my work on my user page, and some of my photos already have appeared here posted by others (so at least some photos are OK); but, for being new, I confess that I don't yet have a handle on the rules.

Arbie

If the photos belong to a page and add something to it, then yes, they are suitable. However, if some of your photos have already been uploaded and embedded in relevant pages, please do not duplicate them.

1. Before he took his own life, Andy Wallace shared with me his photo files of matches he commissioned for Double Trouble. Since DT is a legitimate and ongoing concern making wrestling and boxing videos, I will assume samples from this collection are appropriate here, especially on DT's page.

2. By comparison, the Women's Topless Boxing Association was a fantasy sports group, active on Yahoo until Yahoo destroyed its groups. It makes no videos, holds no tournaments, and currently is dormant over holding competitions. So, is a page about the WTBA appropriate for an encyclopedia?

Arbie

Hi, Arbie, 1 - yes. 2 - no.

After the recent event of Kat and Siren MAX vanishing with SEVERAL client deposits and being banned on the Session Girls site, I've deleted their profiles here. Please do not restore their profiles! Thanks, Lucrecia

I do not agree with you. This site is run by the fans first, not the wrestlers! It is therefore not your role to intervene on this site, since you are a wrestler. Furthermore, the matter to which you are referring is a conflict between people... I don't see how this prohibits a wrestler from having a file dedicated to her on an encyclopedia site.

Ok, I will talk to Naji and let you know, what's the outcome.

The objective of an encyclopedia is to inform I believe... not to sell a service. I don't see why a private conflict should result in an informative page about a person being deleted. I also inform you that I devote many hours of my free time to completing the pages of this site. I find it very disrespectful for a wrestler to delete data that I spent hours encoding. This is a lack of respect for my work!

Apologies, if that came of in such way. My point was not to disrespect you. My point was not to promote people, who don't do good stuff in our community. They took people's money (300 eur in one case) and they even blackmailed one of the guys and girls who were trying to help. If the site would be kept, there should be also info about how they treat the clients IMHO.. but you will probably disagree because you're one of Max blind followers. Therefore I don't think I want to discuss this further.

The purpose of this site is not to advertise female wrestlers: it is an encyclopedia, the objective of which is to bring together all the public information found on the web. Moreover, there is no mention anywhere on this site of services offered during private sessions. I wonder what your contributions are to this encyclopedia? How many articles have you written? You come here only to delete data from people with whom you are in conflict... you do not respect the work of the contributors who give their time to build this encyclopedia little by little.

I incorrectly created the AlexandraGMC page before setting up the Alexandra (GMC) page. The first page that doesn’t have any entries can be deleted. Thank you!

Hi, I've blanked the contents of the unwanted page, but only the site Admin (Zweig AKA Naji) has the authority to delete anything so I've msg'd him to ask if he could assist. Nice work on the GMC entries incidenally!

Thanks so much and thank you for making the corrections and adding photos!

No problem. Just one thing to mention - you need to always add the company name under the Category:Wrestlers line to ensure the wrestler gets added to the Rosters page for that company.

Thanks! Added for Rica.